Discussion:
emacs' charm vs vs.net
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William Shieh
2003-10-29 00:55:33 UTC
Permalink
hi,

i'm very new to email and the system i'm using most of the time is win32.
could someone give me some example why emacs is so powerful? from what i
could see is that it takes more key to do a simple copy and paste than
notepad. i know notepad is probably not a good example, however, can anyone
give me a good reason why you use emacs instead of vs.net from ms?

thanks,
gs
r***@core.com
2003-10-29 05:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Shieh
hi,
i'm very new to email and the system i'm using most of the time is win32.
could someone give me some example why emacs is so powerful? from what i
could see is that it takes more key to do a simple copy and paste than
notepad. i know notepad is probably not a good example, however, can
anyone give me a good reason why you use emacs instead of vs.net from ms?
thanks,
gs
I'm not familiar with vs.net, since I'm a Linux user. But I'm a full-time
writer. If all you're doing is a simple copy and pasting then just about
anything will fill your needs. But if you type all day long--programming or
writing--Emacs can lighten your workload considerably.

Why? Because it has all the commands you've ever wished for. Plus it has
more that you've never thought of but will find absolutely vital once you
learn them. When you combine its hundreds of commands with its macro-making
ability, you can put together your own commands (macros) that can do heavy
amounts of work at the push of a button. It can be stunningly efficient.

That efficiency comes at the price of learning the commands. It's not that
the commands are hard but that you have more than just your cut and paste
example. Once you adjust to Emacs' way of doing things--which probably will
take at least several weeks or longer--you'll find anything else
inadequate. And even when some feature is retrograde, you still won't be
tempted to go to anything else because of hundreds of other features that
more than compensate.

Emacs' power also comes from the fact that it's a totally integrated system.
You've already mentioned mail, there's a newsreader, calculator, address
book, calendar, personal information organizer, FTP module, telnet,
browser, games and other things. Although I'm not one of them, some people
NEVER leave Emacs all the time they're on the computer. It can be a bit
overwhelming, in fact. You'll find you'll learn some things, work with them
for awhile, learn some more things, work with them for awhile, and then
learn still more. I'm still learning and still becoming even more
efficient. I periodically go through the documentation with the question:
Is there something that does this? There often is. Or there may be a way to
make one.

This reply is kind of lacking in specifics but you asked a rather general,
but valid, question. It's still more than I had to work with when I
started. I'd read about Emacs for a number of years but beyond the typical
and unenlightening "Emacs Rules" stuff, I had no idea why I should even
bother. Now I know. After you master it, you run rather than crawl when you
edit text.

Hope this helps.

--Rod
--
Author of "Linux for Non-Geeks--Clear-eyed Answered for Practical Consumers"
and "Boring Stories from Uncle Rod." Both are available at
http://www.rodwriterpublishing.com/index.html

To reply by e-mail, take the extra "o" out of the name.
Knut Forkalsrud
2003-10-29 08:03:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Shieh
give me a good reason why you use emacs instead of vs.net from ms?
I couldn't help but notice you are posting from Microsoft
(NNTP-Posting-Host: andreaj4.redmond.corp.microsoft.com). Your
question have been asked before on this newsgroup from other people at
Microsoft. There are hundreds of answers already. Se for example the
following thread started by another apparent Microsoft representative
last year:

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3d1b52ae%241%40news.microsoft.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dg:thl3560799105d%26dq%3D%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D3d1b52ae%25241%2540news.microsoft.com

That should give you enough answers for a lengthy report.

I can understand it if you want to pick what is best from Emacs and
offer the same capabilities in Microsoft Visual Studio. I think you
will find that the openness and extensibility (or lack thereof) is
what keeps a lot of Emacs users away from Microsoft Visual Studio. I
don't see how that can change without radical changes in Microsoft's
organization.

-Knut
unknown
2003-10-29 08:04:40 UTC
Permalink
"William Shieh" <***@hotmail.com> writes:

NNTP-Posting-Host: andreaj4.redmond.corp.microsoft.com

Run out of ideas again? Please don't ask us to design your non-Free
products without compensation. You are welcome to take Emacs and
integrate it into your own GPL'ed IDE.
David Kastrup
2003-10-29 09:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Shieh
i'm very new to email and the system i'm using most of the time is
win32. could someone give me some example why emacs is so powerful?
from what i could see is that it takes more key to do a simple copy
and paste than notepad.
Assuming that you are using the mouse, Emacs takes one left mouse
click to one end of the area to copy, one right mouse click to the
other end of the area (two clicks if you also want to delete the
original), and one middle mouse click at the destination to copy to.

You don't even need to move your hand from your mouse.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
Leo
2003-10-31 01:51:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Shieh
hi,
i'm very new to email and the system i'm using most of the time is win32.
could someone give me some example why emacs is so powerful? from what i
could see is that it takes more key to do a simple copy and paste than
notepad. i know notepad is probably not a good example, however, can anyone
give me a good reason why you use emacs instead of vs.net from ms?
thanks,
gs
mmmh, eventually i think it's hard to say why emacs is so great...

undoubtly its very powerful, but otherwise it's cryptic. its smart (eg. you
can easily paste the 6th last cut!), but very non-standard (= no-windows).
it integrates a lot (from file-browsing to database access), but it isn't
well integrated in windows (or does anybody know a emacs plug-in for IE -
these days THE standard for everything).

let's put it this way: after all emacs sets you very much apart from most of
the usual computer users. psychologically that might be the main reason for
its niche usage.

the emacs editor is like my macintosh computer: very special. i just love
it!

cheers, leo
Gernot Hassenpflug
2003-10-31 16:25:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leo
hi,
mmmh, eventually i think it's hard to say why emacs is so great...
a cryptic answer too ...
Post by Leo
undoubtly its very powerful, but otherwise it's cryptic. its smart (eg. you
can easily paste the 6th last cut!), but very non-standard (= no-windows).
it integrates a lot (from file-browsing to database access), but it isn't
well integrated in windows (or does anybody know a emacs plug-in for IE -
these days THE standard for everything).
I resent that, being a niche user of other software. But YMMV. (Xemacs
is my editor in Win2000Pro too.) Standards of what exactly? Emacs
creates its own standards, just like Microsoft did. Apple did its
research and came up with a winner, since copied widely. X does things
its way. What standard do you prefer?
Post by Leo
let's put it this way: after all emacs sets you very much apart from most of
the usual computer users.
Well, for one thing you can work smarter than most other users.

... yeah, and if I could afford a Mac, I would buy one too, this
instant.
--
G Hassenpflug RASC, Kyoto University
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